Federal Circuit Hands Zillow a Win, Ruling IBM Map Display Patents Cover Abstract Ideas

“Using a computer to ‘concurrently update’ the map and the list may speed up the process, but ‘mere automation of manual processes using generic computers does not constitute a patentable improvement in computer technology.’” – Federal Circuit

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit (CAFC) today issued a precedential decision finding that two IBM patents directed to technology that allows users to select and view results on a map were directed to ineligible subject matter under 35 U.S.C. § 101. IBM had sued Zillow, alleging that several of the services offered on Zillow’s website and mobile applications infringed the claims. But the district court granted Zillow’s motion for judgment on the pleadings, finding the claims were directed to abstract ideas and lacked any inventive concept.

The opinion was authored by Judge Hughes. Judge Stoll dissented in part, explaining that claims 9 and 13 of IBM’s U.S. Patent No. 7,187,389 were plausibly patent eligible and should not have been found ineligible at the pleadings stage.

U.S. Patent No. 9,158,789 covers a method for “coordinated geospatial, list-based and filter-based selection.” The ‘389 patent is directed to “methods of displaying layered data on a spatially oriented display (like a map), based on nonspatial display attributes (like visual characteristics—color hues, line patterns, shapes, etc.),” according to the CAFC opinion. The layering feature of the ’389 patent is illustrated in the image below.

Federal Circuit

‘789 Patent

In its analysis of the district court’s decision, the CAFC majority agreed at Alice step one that the ‘789 patent is “directed to the abstract idea of responding to a user’s selection of a portion of a displayed map by simultaneously updating the map and a co-displayed list of items on the map.” Since this can be done in the physical realm by hand using a paper map, the district court concluded that the claims merely contemplate the automation of an existing practice using a computer. Specifically, the district court reasoned that the task “could be performed by hand, using a printed map and related list of items on the map, a transparent overlay, a wet-erase marker, a blank sheet of opaque paper, and a knife or scissors.”

The CAFC further explained that “[t]he claims are directed to limiting and coordinating the display of information based on a user selection.” While IBM argued that the claims make “specific asserted improvement[s] in computer capabilities,” specifically, “an improved [graphical user interface] for displaying, filtering, and interacting with geospatial data on a map and list display” and that the patent “improves ‘the ability of users to identify and analyze relevant data in otherwise large data sets,’” the CAFC said this does not satisfy step one:

“Identifying, analyzing, and presenting certain data to a user is not an improvement specific to computing….. We have repeatedly held claims ‘directed to collection of information, comprehending the meaning of that collected information, and indication of the results, all on a generic computer network operating in its normal, expected manner’ to be abstract. In re Killian, 45 F.4th 1373, 1380 (Fed. Cir. 2022); see also Intell. Ventures I LLC v. Cap. One Fin. Corp., 850 F.3d 1332, 1340 (Fed. Cir. 2017) (describing cases). The claims here recite similarly abstract steps: presenting a map, having a user select a portion of that map, and then synchronizing the map and its corresponding list to display a more limited data set to the user. Using a computer to ‘concurrently update’ the map and the list may speed up the process, but “mere automation of manual processes using generic computers does not constitute a patentable improvement in computer technology.”

The CAFC further agreed that the patent is “result-oriented,” and written in “result-based functional language” that “does not sufficiently describe how to achieve these results in a non-abstract way” under Two-Way Media Ltd. v. Comcast Cable Commc’ns, LLC, 874 F.3d 1329, 1337 (Fed. Cir. 2017).

At Alice step two, the majority dismissed IBM’s argument that under Aatrix Software Inc., v. Green Shades Software, Inc. “if there are allegations that the features of a patent are inventive, the District Court must accept that on a Rule 12 motion and cannot weigh the evidence or make credibility determinations.” The CAFC explained that “only ‘plausible and specific factual allegations that aspects of the claims are inventive are sufficient,’” and that the court’s own precedent in Cellspin Soft, Inc. v. Fitbit, Inc. reiterates that “we do not read Aatrix to say that any allegation about inventiveness, wholly divorced from the claims or the specification, defeats a motion to dismiss.” IBM’s arguments for the claims’ inventiveness failed because the relevant limitations “use functional language, at a high level of generality and divorced from any computer technology, to recite the claimed functions. The limitations simply describe the abstract method without providing more.”

‘389 Patent

As to the ‘389 patent, the CAFC again agreed with the district court that the patent “is directed to the abstract ideas of categorizing and displaying information, as well as altering the manner of display upon user demand.” IBM said the district court was oversimplifying the patent by “drawing inaccurate analogies to manual methods,” but the CAFC, citing Interval Licensing LLC v. AOL, Inc. said that “the collection, organization, and display of two sets of information on a generic display device is abstract absent a ‘specific improvement to the way computers [or other technologies] operate.’” Since all the ‘389 patent claims do is organize visual results into layers and then present the layers on a screen, even if the claims speed up the process by using a computer, “they do not recite an improvement in any computing technology,” said the CAFC. IBM also attempted to liken its invention to the one at issue in Core Wireless Licensing S.A.R.L. v. LG Electronics, Inc., which was held patentable, but the CAFC said IBM’s representative claim 1 of the ‘389 patent “is much broader than the asserted claims in Core Wireless” and, unlike the Core Wireless claims, was not “limited to computer screens or any device at all.” Ultimately, said the majority, the method recited “has long been done by cartographers creating paper maps” and the solution of layering “could be accomplished using colored pencils and translucent paper, as the district court noted.”

At Alice step two, the CAFC Again found no inventive concept, rejecting IBM’s argument that “in the computer context, ‘dynamically altering visual characteristics to improve salience and reduce the effect of a cluttered screen’ is inventive.” The court explained:

“[T]hat dynamic relayering or rematching could also be performed by hand, though more slowly—one would have to shuffle paper layers or erase and redraw objects on new layers, but it could be done. Any of the patent’s improved efficiency comes not from an improvement in the computer but from applying the claimed abstract idea to a computer display.”  

 Judge Stoll agreed with the majority’s finding that the ’789 patent claims and several of the ’389 patent claims were ineligible under 35 U.S.C. § 101 and judgment on the pleadings was proper but dissented as to claims 9 and 13 of the ‘389 patent, which are directed to the same subject matter – a “layered data display tool.” Stoll said that there were plausible factual allegations made in IBM’s second amended complaint as to the eligibility of these claims and that the district court committed legal error in holding them patent ineligible and the majority held the claims “at too high a level of abstraction.”

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29 comments so far.

  • [Avatar for Pro Se]
    Pro Se
    December 13, 2022 12:25 pm

    Don’t you think the system would be better if abstract ideas were allowed to be patented?

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 20, 2022 11:02 am

    @ Curius “Somehow I, the USPTO, and the Federal Circuit have been unable to identify where the Supreme Court overruled Benson, yet you have.”

    First, the issue was even whether Diehr “commented on” Benson. Stop with your b.s. changing the issue, and if you believe the Federal Circuit on that one, you’re hopeless.

    And Diehr did change the scope of Benson – which is so provable that you need only read 100 CAFC opinions and wonder how Berkheimer, DDR Holdings, Enfish, etc. were held patent eligible. Even Justice Steven’s complained about the whole software thing.

    As to your personal ability to read case law – it’s terrible – so terrible you need to attempt to change what I actually said and ignore the holdings of Alice Corp. and Bilski.

  • [Avatar for Pro Say]
    Pro Say
    October 20, 2022 11:02 am

    B @ 10.20; 10:37: “Evidence is required.”

    CAFC Eligibility Gods don’t need no evidence.

    Nor do they have to abide by the dictates of their SCOTUS eligibility overlords.

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 20, 2022 10:37 am

    @ primary examiner “If you believe the Killian claim integrates the judicial exception into a practical application under Step 2A Prong Two . . . .”

    You’re so missing the point. Step 2 is useless because step 1 is idiotic. Step 1 is to reduce a claim’s language to a blurb fitting on a post-it note (while ignoring 95% of the language of a claim) and declare, with no rationale based in evidence and reality, the blurb is abstract.

    It’s stupid, and it’s the moronic trap the CAFC led the patent world into b/c they’re literally too stupid and lazy to read SCOTUS case law. The entire idea that Killian’s claims are abstract because Judge Taranto held EPG’s claims to monitoring power grids abstract based on “mental steps” is idiotic. Further, one has to wonder about the intelligence and/or integrity of a judicial body that declares they performed an “independent review” on Diehr and concluded Diehr did not even “comment on” Benson. You need to be a real quisling (a la Curious) to accept that demonstratably false statement.

    Judges are at best neophytes on any claimed subject matter before them, but instead of relying on evidence before them to analyze issues, they actually think they know what is well-known, routine, and conventional because . . . who knows why. An epiphany from God maybe? Their Magic 8-ball? Ouiji board?

    BTW, even Judge Stoll’s pro-eligibility holdings in the recent Google case are based on nonsense. Right outcome, stupid rationale. She sees sufficient detail in a claim (citing DDR Holdings) that facially appears to claim more than the abstract idea but think about it – one process can be well-known, routine, and conventional and have a thousand working steps, and another process can be perfectly unknown and non-obvious and have two steps. It’s all about context as to what is the state of the art in a particular field. Evidence is required.

  • [Avatar for primary examiner]
    primary examiner
    October 20, 2022 07:57 am

    Curious: “The standard is “some meaningful way beyond generally linking the use of the judicial exception to a particular technological environment.” The “inventive concept” is part of the Step 2B analysis — not part of the Prong Two analysis of Revised Step 2A, which were to “the claims is more than a drafting effort designed to monopolize the judicial exception.” As such, you don’t need an “inventive concept” under Step 2A. This is all laid out in the 2019 PEG.”

    Regarding Step 2A Prong Two, and the “such that the claim is more than a drafting effort designed to monopolize the judicial exception” part, per the MPEP: “examiners should evaluate whether the claim as a whole integrates the judicial exception into a practical application of the exception in Step 2A Prong Two…Whether or not a claim integrates a judicial exception into a practical application is evaluated using the considerations set forth in subsection I below, in accordance with the procedure described below in subsection II.”

    If you believe the Killian claim integrates the judicial exception into a practical application under Step 2A Prong Two, using the “such that the claim is more than a drafting effort designed to monopolize the judicial exception” argument, which consideration of subsection I (in accordance with the procedure described in subsection II) would you use to support your argument?

  • [Avatar for Curious]
    Curious
    October 19, 2022 10:58 pm

    Translation: you have no idea and look to a b.s. statement by the USPTO that was long overruled by the SCOTUS.
    Somehow I, the USPTO, and the Federal Circuit have been unable to identify where the Supreme Court overruled Benson, yet you have. You keep talk that game but where is the language. Just cite it verbatim and I will concede the point. BTW, I won’t be holding my breath.

    The three cases b/f Killian and the three cases after Killian were all addressed w/o mental steps.
    And that proves what? That there are multiple different types of ways of characterizing abstract ideas?

    Further, name a single case b/f Killian that relied on “comprehending” generic computer networks?
    You do realize that the role of the courts is to fill in the gaps? Make new law and expand upon old law. As I said, they rephrase ‘analyze data’ as ‘comprehend data.’ It is a distinction without a difference.

    The two words mean different things.
    Meh, to comprehend something you need to analyze it. Regardless, if the Federal Circuit wrote “analyzing” instead of “comprehending.”

    HOWEVER, “COMPREHENDING” IS NEVER USED IN KILLIAN’S CLAIMS.
    Oh Lord. You invent case law where none exists, and then you require a characterization of your claim language to verbatim match what the claims says. Seriously, have you ever made those kind of arguments work?

    Pssst – no mental steps issue on software claims. Sort of blows your theory to heck
    Did I ever say that every claim directed to an abstract idea have to recite mental steps? No. Dude, you are seriously bad at this stuff.

    Further, the CAFC expressly admitted that Killian’s claims could not be performed by mental steps alone.
    Generic recitations of computer components doesn’t save a claim. See Alice v. CLS Bank. Have you read that decision?

    Primary Examiner writes:
    I would argue that the Killian claims do not include any additional elements that represent an inventive concept, i.e. there are no meaningful limitations.
    The standard is “some meaningful way beyond generally linking the use of the judicial exception to a particular technological environment.” The “inventive concept” is part of the Step 2B analysis — not part of the Prong Two analysis of Revised Step 2A, which were to “the claims is more than a drafting effort designed to monopolize the judicial exception.” As such, you don’t need an “inventive concept” under Step 2A. This is all laid out in the 2019 PEG.

    MOST of the CAFC has yet to realize the circular nature of their jurisprudence and will do anything to protect their egos from exposure to reality
    You seriously think they don’t know it? Of course they know it. It is there for a reason, which is to allow them to tank any claim whenever they want to. You think you are the kid that exclaims “the emperor has no clothes on.” However, in reality, you are the person that goes to the nudist colony and exclaims “these people have no clothes on” and expects them to put clothes on. YOUR PROBLEM is that you think no one else realizes how screwed up the system is and you believe that if you just inform the court of this that they’ll fix it. I hate to break it to you, but they know very well the undefined nature of all their weasel words, which is exactly what they want. Unless the Supreme Court steps in to fix it, all your bitch’n and moaning to the CAFC isn’t doing a thing. And since you apparently having been paying attention, the Supreme Court has little interest in fixing things either. They could have stepped in dozens of times since Alice to clarify themselves yet they haven’t.

    FYI, Killian’s claims are on their fourth theory of abstract at this moment. After rehearing they might likely be on abstract theory #5.
    And so what? There are new precedential decisions being issued by the CAFC regarding 101 all the time. In re Killian is already being cited by the Board to affirm 101 rejections. BTW, you aren’t getting a rehearing.

    I promised my client that, unlike the PTAB, the CAFC would treat them fairly.
    I would never be so naïve to make such a promise.

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 19, 2022 05:21 pm

    @ primary examiner

    Dude, I don’t mean to be on your case, but it’s been frustrating dealing with a court system that can’t understand the folly of circular logic.

    Maybe I should include the same link to Judge Chen.

    Incidentally, MOST of the CAFC has yet to realize the circular nature of their jurisprudence and will do anything to protect their egos from exposure to reality.

    I can understand: you don’t like Killian’s claims, but why are they abstract? FYI, Killian’s claims are on their fourth theory of abstract at this moment. After rehearing they might likely be on abstract theory #5.

    Here’s reality: The CAFC is so hapless they are unable to read and comprehend Supreme Court case law, and so they make up idiotic case law. During oral argument, not a single judge or the USPTO Solicitor once contended “inventive concept” had meaning. The Killian decision is an effort to avoid answering the question so severe that Judge Chen engaged in serial fabrications including manufacturing a fake “quote.”

    Your flaws is not being a bad or stupid person; your flaw is believing the CAFC. I was like that years ago. I promised my client that, unlike the PTAB, the CAFC would treat them fairly. They made a liar of me, and I doubt I’ll ever forgive them.

  • [Avatar for primary examiner]
    primary examiner
    October 19, 2022 03:15 pm

    “Dear freaking god I’m in Idiocracy”

    I hear you B 🙂

    Great job of responding with a youtube link by the way. You win this one I guess…

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 19, 2022 02:42 pm

    @ primary examiner “You are a practicing patent attorney, you should know this, as it’s been defined.”

    Never once. I’ve tried for five years to get a single judge or justice to define it.

    In the context of patent law, an inventive concept represents significantly more than the abstract idea.”

    Dear freaking god I’m in Idiocracy. Brawndo, its what plants crave. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqIJZeeXEc

  • [Avatar for primary examiner]
    primary examiner
    October 19, 2022 01:55 pm

    “What is an “inventive concept”? You have no idea. NONE.”
    You are a practicing patent attorney, you should know this, as it’s been defined. In the context of patent law, an inventive concept represents significantly more than the abstract idea.
    Stop wasting everyone’s time with ridiculous, delusional questions.

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 19, 2022 01:23 pm

    @ Curious “Have you not been practicing at the USPTO the last 6 years? Have you not read the 2019 Patent Eligibility Guidelines (2019 PEG)? This is from FN14 of the 2019 PEG.”

    Translation: you have no idea and look to a b.s. statement by the USPTO that was long overruled by the SCOTUS.

    Further, the CAFC expressly admitted that Killian’s claims could not be performed by mental steps alone.

    “The rules you lost to have been known at least since the publication of the 2019 PEG, which was January of 2019.”

    The three cases b/f Killian and the three cases after Killian were all addressed w/o mental steps.

    Further, name a single case b/f Killian that relied on “comprehending” generic computer networks?

    “I think you are referring to “comprehending the meaning of that collected information,” which is merely rephrasing the ‘analyzing the data’ from Electric Power.”

    Earth to Curious. Total b.s. The two words mean different things, and I suspect that the Federal Circuit has at least one dictionary somewhere – or knows someone with access to a dictionary. To even say that computers “analyze” data is a bit of a stretch as the word applies some form of deconstruction is performed. EPG’s claims didn’t “analyze” data – they processed multiple data streams. That said EPG used the word in their claims so the CAFC used the word.

    HOWEVER, “COMPREHENDING” IS NEVER USED IN KILLIAN’S CLAIMS. Stop with the nonsense fabrication. Stop making excuses for stupidity.

    “So what of it? I mentioned that case in my very first post. Please pay attention.”

    Pssst – no mental steps issue on software claims. Sort of blows your theory to heck

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 19, 2022 01:01 pm

    @ primary examiner “It also describes meaningful limitations as additional elements that represent significantly more than the recited judicial exception, i.e. an inventive concept. . . . I would argue that
    the Killian claims do not include any additional elements that
    represent an inventive concept, i.e. there are no meaningful
    limitations.”

    What is an “inventive concept”? You have no idea. NONE. Stop pretending you know the time of day much less substantive case law. The PTAB is so clueless they lied about the issue. The Solicitor, and the CAFC are certainly so clueless that these people REFUSED to even use the term during oral hearing.

    Also, 103 assures that nonobvious claim limitations (excluding a computer) assure that a claim doesn’t preempt an abstract idea.

  • [Avatar for primary examiner]
    primary examiner
    October 19, 2022 11:10 am

    ““primary examiner” knows how that logic is applied. However, his comment about “certain method of organizing human activity” is a stretch. Killian’s claims in no way, shape or form are a “drafting effort designed to monopolize the judicial exception” (i.e., “providing insurance benefits”).”

    Curious: the MPEP mentions “an additional element applies or uses the judicial exception in some other meaningful way beyond generally linking the use of the judicial exception to a particular technological environment, such that the claim as a whole is more than a drafting effort designed to monopolize the exception.”
    It also describes meaningful limitations as additional elements that represent significantly more than the recited judicial exception, i.e. an inventive concept.
    I understand your argument and it’s ok to disagree. I would argue that the Killian claims do not include any additional elements that represent an inventive concept, i.e. there are no meaningful limitations.

  • [Avatar for Curious]
    Curious
    October 19, 2022 10:36 am

    Where did this “threshold test” come from – besides the hind end of three idiot APJs who ignored every word of Killian’s 440 word claim except “computer”?
    Have you not been practicing at the USPTO the last 6 years? Have you not read the 2019 Patent Eligibility Guidelines (2019 PEG)? This is from FN14 of the 2019 PEG:
    If a claim, under its broadest reasonable interpretation, covers performance in the mind but for the recitation of generic computer components, then it is still in the mental processes category unless the claim cannot practically be performed in the mind.
    Killian’s 440 word claim recite little more than generic computer components and things that can be performed in the human mind. It is painfully obvious to anyone practicing in the USPTO that those claims were never going to pass 101.

    and neither the PTAB or the CAFC announced why Killian’s claims are “well-known, routine, and conventional” as a whole ordered combination.
    That falls under Step 2B and applies to additional elements – not to the abstract idea. Seriously, you really don’t know how the law is being applied, do you? You wouldn’t have made that comment if you do. You cannot make arguments attacking the logic of the Federal Circuit’s analysis when you don’t understand how that logic is being applied.

    “primary examiner” knows how that logic is applied. However, his comment about “certain method of organizing human activity” is a stretch. Killian’s claims in no way, shape or form are a “drafting effort designed to monopolize the judicial exception” (i.e., “providing insurance benefits”).

    No one can win a game when the rules change every roll of the dice.
    The rules you lost to have been known at least since the publication of the 2019 PEG, which was January of 2019.

    You’re a CAFC quisling who would rather believe total b.s. fabricated as part of a circular argument disguised as an issue of law than think for yourself.
    Your work product speaks for itself.

    BTW, IBM argued lots of Federal Circuit law and totally lost.
    Everyone who has lost at the CAFC in 101 has argued Federal Circuit law – what of it?

    Second, why are Killian’s claims directed to an “abstract idea”? Seriously, tell me exactly why, because NO ONE at the USPTO or PTAB can explain that one.
    That question can be read one of two ways. Either (i) you know why the USPTO asserted that the claims are directed to an abstract idea and you disagree or (ii) you don’t understand how the USPTO could reject the claims as an abstract idea. It is OK if it’s the former. However, it is the latter, I suggest a new line of work.

    Again, you quislings do nothing but ape circular arguments disguised as issues of law, and are incapable of independent thought.
    You should read Dale Carnegie’s book of “How to win friends and influence people.” You are terrible at both.

    The CAFC admitted that the claims could not be done all by mental processes. That’s why they invented this totally idiotic idea of comprehending networks.
    I think you are referring to “comprehending the meaning of that collected information,” which is merely rephrasing the ‘analyzing the data’ from Electric Power.

    Psssst, Curious
    So what of it? I mentioned that case in my very first post. Please pay attention.

    My process cannot be done in one’s mind, nobody is stupid enough to try to prove me wrong even Curious will not take the $500,000 challenge.
    I suggest you read FN14 from the 2019 PEG that I reproduced above.

    First question: How would I get around consent? Exactly and the answer is not “mental steps.”
    Has “consent” always required a computer? Did “consent” exist prior to the existence of computers? Those are rhetorical questions. Your disclosed invention doesn’t require consent forms to be filed. Do you seriously think that is inventive? Data access control is a very well-developed art.

    The court’s ruling that “evidence was not preserved in our briefs” cannot even be dignified. The evidence argument was reflected in every document submitted by my attorneys going way back.
    Your “evidence” is just forms. It isn’t evidence about your invention. It is evidence about the prior art. Also, there is a difference between submitting evidence “going way back” and preserving the evidence in the brief. Your evidence is akin to you handing me a rock and saying that is evidence that the NY Jets should have won last year’s Super Bowl.

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 19, 2022 09:47 am

    @ concerned “The court’s ruling that “evidence was not preserved in our briefs” cannot even be dignified.”

    The entire evince argument was that there are 55 documents the PTAB refused to consider, and ZERO evidence supporting that the claims are well-known, routine, and conventional. Even the Solicitor commented on the issue stating that the mental steps switch was done exactly to avoid the evidence issue.

    Juge Chen is insincere to the point he actually fabricated a quote in his decision not to mention makes a half dozen other misrepresentations.

    Why anyone trusts Chen astounds me.

    Plus, Chen’s notion that conventional/generic computer networks can “comprehend” is probably the most stupid statement ever made in a CAFC opinion ever. I’m sure there will be a time (soon) when the CAFC has to prevaricate/clarify that statement.

    In my view there’s less than a handful of honest and competent judges on the CAFC.

  • [Avatar for concerned]
    concerned
    October 19, 2022 06:05 am

    No doubt in my mind, a process that:

    Will not define words is suspicious.
    Will not address evidence is suspicious.
    Changes reasons and words is suspicious.
    Cares more about the “how” than the solution is warped.

    Makes statements that cannot be correct is suspicious. My process cannot be done in one’s mind, nobody is stupid enough to try to prove me wrong even Curious will not take the $500,000 challenge.

    I was just talking this week to a professional in my field that has more experience than the judges, Curious and primary examiner combined. First question: How would I get around consent? Exactly and the answer is not “mental steps.”

    The court’s ruling that “evidence was not preserved in our briefs” cannot even be dignified. The evidence argument was reflected in every document submitted by my attorneys going way back. Even my wife laughed at that statement. So first, do not address the evidence, when forced to acknowledge the evidence rule it was not preserved in the briefs.

    B is not the problem. Plenty of people come on this forum and state the patent system is woefully lacking. It is self evident.

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 18, 2022 06:19 pm

    @ primary examiner “Besides the abstract idea recited in the claims, you are left with a generic computer and network. Those are the additional elements, and there is no inventive concept present.”

    First, you have no idea what an “inventive concept” is. No one does. 172 years “invention” and all its derivatives have never been defined.

    Second, why are Killian’s claims directed to an “abstract idea”? Seriously, tell me exactly why, because NO ONE at the USPTO or PTAB can explain that one.

    Again, you quislings do nothing but ape circular arguments disguised as issues of law, and are incapable of independent thought.

    “On top of the mental process abstract idea which is recited by the claims,. . . ”

    The CAFC admitted that the claims could not be done all by mental processes. That’s why they invented this totally idiotic idea of comprehending networks.

    Pay attention.

    “Killian also recites a certain method of organizing human activity (that of a fundamental economic practice, of providing insurance benefits).”

    Why is it a “fundamental economic practice”? Seriously, where’s your evidence? The Examiner cited none, and indeed found several limitations totally unknown and nonobvious. The PTAB cited none, and indeed switched legal theories to ignore the evidence favoring Killian. The CAFC cite none.

    Also, why is it permissible to ignore 339 out of 440 words when determining abstract?

    All that said, do you believe conventional networks comprehend data? I would really like to know.

  • [Avatar for primary examiner]
    primary examiner
    October 18, 2022 05:47 pm

    “neither the PTAB or the CAFC announced why Killian’s claims are “well-known, routine, and conventional” as a whole ordered combination.”
    Besides the abstract idea recited in the claims, you are left with a generic computer and network. Those are the additional elements, and there is no inventive concept present.
    On top of the mental process abstract idea which is recited by the claims, Killian also recites a certain method of organizing human activity (that of a fundamental economic practice, of providing insurance benefits).

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 18, 2022 05:33 pm

    @ Curious “The claims of the ’042 application do not pass this threshold test. As the Board found, they are directed to the patent-ineligible abstract mental process of “a search algorithm for identifying people who may be eligible for SSDI benefits they are not receiving.”

    There you go
    ONCE MORE

    You’re dodging the question. Where did this “threshold test” come from – besides the hind end of three idiot APJs who ignored every word of Killian’s 440 word claim except “computer”?

    The PTAB changed the grounds of rejection from “just because” to mental steps, and neither the PTAB or the CAFC announced why Killian’s claims are “well-known, routine, and conventional” as a whole ordered combination.

    No one can win a game when the rules change every roll of the dice. You’re a CAFC quisling who would rather believe total b.s. fabricated as part of a circular argument disguised as an issue of law than think for yourself.

    BTW, IBM argued lots of Federal Circuit law and totally lost. Further, so far I’ve only found one outrageous lie by the CAFC in the IBM case. There were three in Chamberlain v Techtronics and I have nearly a dozen in Killian.

    As to the lack of “inventive concept” in IBM’s claims, unfortunately IBM’s counsel didn’t realize that the term has no meaning.

  • [Avatar for Curious]
    Curious
    October 18, 2022 04:54 pm

    Killian’s claims cannot be done by “mental steps” as was admitted by the CAFC. IBM’s claims absolutely can.
    LOL. When it comes to characterizing case law and facts, it is safer to assume that you are telling it wrong than telling it right.

    The CAFC admits that Killian’s claims cannot be done mentally? Hmmm, this is what the CAFC wrote:
    The claims of the ’042 application do not pass this threshold test. As the Board found, they are directed to the patent-ineligible abstract mental process of “a search algorithm for identifying people who may be eligible for SSDI benefits they are not receiving.” See Killian, 2021 WL 363335, at *6.
    To me, that doesn’t look like your purported admission. What about this one?
    The Board correctly concluded that “[t]hese steps can be performed by a human, using ‘observation, evaluation, judgment, [and] opinion,’ because they involve making determinations and identifications, which are mental tasks humans routinely do.” Killian, 2021 WL 363335, at *6 (citation omitted).
    Hmmm, doesn’t look like it here. What about this:
    In the context of mental processes, such as that claimed by the ’042 application, we have explained that if a claim’s steps “can be performed in the human mind, or by a human using a pen and paper,” and the elements in the claim do not contain a sufficient inventive concept under Alice/Mayo step two, the claim is for a patent-ineligible abstract idea.
    The ‘042 Application is the Killian application, is it not?

    What else did Chen write? Oh, here it is:
    At bottom, Diehr did not comment on or overrule the mental steps doctrine. Nor has Mr. Killian pointed to any statement in Bilski that undermines a mental process as one of the judicial exceptions; after an independent review, we find nothing in that opinion to that effect.
    In other words, the CAFC was calling you out on your BS gobbledygook legal theories that Bilski and/or Diehr overturned prior case law indicating that “mental steps” were judicial exceptions.

    Further, the problem with American Axle wasn’t clarity, it was 112(a) enablement.
    112 wasn’t the rejection in American Axle. But you already knew that.

  • [Avatar for Model 101]
    Model 101
    October 18, 2022 12:10 pm

    Forget going to the Supreme Court on this one.

    There is no chance there. It’s money better spent somewhere else.

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 18, 2022 11:37 am

    “IBM is a better plaintiff. IBM’s claims aren’t gobbledygook — Killian’s claims make American Axle’s claims look clear by comparison.”

    IBM is a better plaintiff. Where’s your mental steps? Killian’s claims cannot be done by “mental steps” as was admitted by the CAFC. IBM’s claims absolutely can. Also, are you saying that the comprehending network theory of abstract doesn’t apply to IBM but does to Killian?

    Further, the problem with American Axle wasn’t clarity, it was 112(a) enablement.

    The only gobbledygook are your legal theories.

  • [Avatar for Curious]
    Curious
    October 18, 2022 11:30 am

    No mention of mental steps, Curious
    What of it? There are a chockful of Federal Circuit cases that mention mental steps. Mental steps are only one of many things that the Federal Circuit has identified that that recites a judicial exception. Did you forget this quote from Mayo v. Prometheus?
    “Phenomena of nature, though just discovered, mental processes, and abstract intellectual concepts are not patentable, as they are the basic tools of scientific and technological work.” Gottschalk v. Benson, 409 U. S. 63, 67 (1972). And monopolization of those tools through the grant of a patent might tend to impede innovation more than it would tend to promote it.
    I really don’t know what you are trying to achieve by attacking “mental steps.”

    @Curious “The IBM decision could get some traction at the Supreme Court.” Hey, no mention of mental steps. Why the double standard as compared to Killian?
    IBM is a better plaintiff. IBM’s claims aren’t gobbledygook — Killian’s claims make American Axle’s claims look clear by comparison. IBM’s invention, despite the Federal Circuit’s ramblings, is something that would necessarily be performed on a computer. Killian’s invention is loosely tied to a computer. Same standard, different results.

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 18, 2022 10:22 am

    @ concerned “contemplate the automation of an existing practice using a computer.”

    ZILLOW’s process was not pre-existing. It’s not even asserted in any of the briefing.

    @Curious “The IBM decision could get some traction at the Supreme Court.” Hey, no mention of mental steps. Why the double standard as compared to Killian?

    As to Stoll’s dissent, she is incredibly inconsistent case to case, but at least she’s not stupid enough to believe in comprehending networks

  • [Avatar for B]
    B
    October 18, 2022 10:14 am

    The CAFC once again spews NONSENSE about networks that comprehend.

    Reyna, Stoll, and Hughes

    No surprise.

    No mention of mental steps, Curious

  • [Avatar for concerned]
    concerned
    October 18, 2022 06:49 am

    “contemplate the automation of an existing practice using a computer.”

    My process did not automate any existing practice, yet it was not issued a patent. My process just solved the existing problem. Who cares if problems get solved? Courts just pick and choose any reason to reject/invalidate a patent and use my name to nail another invention.

    The real victory for me personally might be achieving my objective despite the patent system. As an inventor, I might have the potential to actually think of beneficial results, not destroy other people’s efforts. Time will tell.

  • [Avatar for Pro Say]
    Pro Say
    October 17, 2022 08:16 pm

    The CAFC has at this point stocked its ineligibility quiver with an ever-growing panoply of Alice-arrow decisions; leaving ever-fewer areas of innovation safe from their attacks.

    Why, even the innovations of IBM, the mack-daddy of patents with top-notch legal eagles and money to burn, cannot survive its barrage.

    Imagine that. Even IBM.

    So while infringers continue to steal the innovations of others . . . inventors shrivel and die on the vine . . . America falls ever further behind the rest of the world . . . and Section 101 continues to metastasize . . . all with Congressional eyes wide open.

  • [Avatar for Curious]
    Curious
    October 17, 2022 03:22 pm

    I wrote this elsewhere, so I’ll repeat it here.

    IBM v. Zillow makes an interesting contrast with Weisner v. Google, which issued just 4 days ago. Same panel for both decisions except Stoll wrote the opinion in Weisner and was in the dissent in IBM whereas Hughes was the opposite. Reyna was the swing vote in both. Unsurprisingly, Stoll was for patent eligibility and Hughes was not whereas Reyna flip-flopped between the two.

    Both cases involved 12b6 motions under 101.

    The IBM decision could get some traction at the Supreme Court. It would have the right type of client and the technology is fairly easy to understand. Moreover, it is more of a classic software patent — unlike American Axle and makes it a better vehicle for addressing software-related patents. Finally, it is dealing with 12b6, which has long been butchered by the Federal Circuit.